Fantaverse Top 100 Songs of All Time (THREAD #6): #50-#41

[Leestu]

I thought so too with the first two. The 1989 track, maybe, I'm not sure.

[numbersix]

Buscemi -- Public Enemy, “Fight the Power”
Despite being so closely associated with one of my least favorite movies of all time, this song still kicks ass.

Ooo, a movie discussion. Who would have thunk it. Interested in seeing why you hate Do the Right Thing so much? I only ask because I love it so.

[Chienfantome]

NSpan
The Beatles, “Michelle” (1965)
Wow, I've never heard this song before, and I really didn't like it. Something about the flat note in "my-bell" bothered me too. That said, bad for these guys is still good.

Paul's actually saying "ma belle"--which, Chien can correct me if I'm wrong, translates to "my beautiful"...

Indeed NSpan, good ear
Paul's singing "Michelle, ma belle, sont des mots qui vont très bien ensemble", which means, "Michelle, my beautiful, are words that go well together"

[NSpan]

Buscemi -- Public Enemy, “Fight the Power”
Despite being so closely associated with one of my least favorite movies of all time, this song still kicks ass.

Ooo, a movie discussion. Who would have thunk it. Interested in seeing why you hate Do the Right Thing so much? I only ask because I love it so.

On top of not being "expertly crafted" (certainly not in the way most film-school kids speak of it), I think it's blatantly racist. There's no moral ambiguity--despite the contrariness of the quotes displayed at the end of the film, the "right" thing to do is clearly implied... and that involves embracing prejudice and physical violence.

I don't normally get riled up about the moral implications of fiction, but most movies (even films that superficially embrace violence, hate, etc.) aren't malicious in intent. They aren't meant to be instructional. When I saw Spike Lee's movie, it seemed obvious to me that he (through the characters in the film) embraced Malcolm X's philosophy over Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s. I've argued about this point with others... and I've heard it all. Some believe that there is no "message"--only a presentation of a problem and a prompt for action. Some admit that the proposed "solution" COULD be construed as inherently racist--but the morality (or lack thereof) is excused because the violence is executed by minorities who have (historically) been mistreated.

Anyway, I find the movie so vile that I'd rather not even talk about it. (Simply acknowledging the film--and/or the controversy surrounding it--empowers the filmmaker and his agenda). I guess you caught me in an especially verbose moment.

[NSpan]

NSpan
The Beatles, “Michelle” (1965)
Wow, I've never heard this song before, and I really didn't like it. Something about the flat note in "my-bell" bothered me too. That said, bad for these guys is still good.

Paul's actually saying "ma belle"--which, Chien can correct me if I'm wrong, translates to "my beautiful"...

Indeed NSpan, good ear
Paul's singing "Michelle, ma belle, sont des mots qui vont très bien ensemble", which means, "Michelle, my beautiful, are words that go well together"

I wonder if this changes Becs' opinion of the song at all.

[numbersix]

On top of not being "expertly crafted" (certainly not in the way most film-school kids speak of it), I think it's blatantly racist. There's no moral ambiguity--despite the contrariness of the quotes displayed at the end of the film, the "right" thing to do is clearly implied... and that involves embracing prejudice and physical violence.

I don't normally get riled up about the moral implications of fiction, but most movies (even films that superficially embrace violence, hate, etc.) aren't malicious in intent. They aren't meant to be instructional. When I saw Spike Lee's movie, it seemed obvious to me that he (through the characters in the film) embraced Malcolm X's philosophy over Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s. I've argued about this point with others... and I've heard it all. Some believe that there is no "message"--only a presentation of a problem and a prompt for action. Some admit that the proposed "solution" COULD be construed as inherently racist--but the morality (or lack thereof) is excused because the violence is executed by minorities who have (historically) been mistreated.

Anyway, I find the movie so vile that I'd rather not even talk about it. (Simply acknowledging the film--and/or the controversy surrounding it--empowers the filmmaker and his agenda). I guess you caught me in an especially verbose moment.

Interesting thoughts. For one I do find it well crafted, in the same sense that I find early Scorsese or Cassavetes well-crafted, in that there's a raw energy to the direction.

But anyway,. it's interesting that you find the film to be inherently racist. Perhaps it's just the pacifist in me, but I felt that there was no obvious moral implication or finger-pointing at all. Hence the film ending with both quotes. If Lee was that biased about the incidents in the film, why wouldn't he just put up the Malcolm x quote alone?

Anyway, what I like about it is that I felt there was a degree of honesty in it. I don't feel like it was blaming anyone entirely. Sal shouldn't have done what he did. But Radio Raheem also shouldn't have done what he did. Both sides of the racial divide are obviously exasperated but not only previous racial tensions, but also the oppression of a forceful police force AND a damn hot day. I think the film goes to length to portray everyone as both good and bad, with no one inherently right or wrong. Perhaps Lee intended differently, but when Mookie picks up the bin, I felt it was a tragic moment as opposed to "the right thing" that the film hints at. To me the title is ironic because no right thing is portrayed.

But again, that just may be me. If I do rewatch the film and do see that Lee is being anti-white, then I too woudl find the film despicable, but that's definitely not the impression I got from watching it. I must watch the DVD extras to see what Lee thought of it himself

[NSpan]

I must watch the DVD extras to see what Lee thought of it himself

Watch it again, if you must (but look for inequalities in terms of action/reaction. Does any one particular character "deserve" what happens to them? Does any one particular character particularly deserve a fate far-removed from what unfolds? Are the acts of revenge, even when prompted by raw anger and confusion, justified?)

But I don't bother with director's commentaries. I feel that the LAST person to ask about art is the artist themselves. We put their words on a pedestal because they inserted the art into the world--however, their views may have changed since. Their understanding of their own art may be skewed. Hell, I have so much faith in the inner-complexities of the human brain that I believe many brilliant artists don't fully understand the intricacies of even their own work--even within the process of creation.

PS. I've seen Spike Lee speak at a very small lecture (no cameras, no recording devices) regarding inequalities--his rant was far more comparable to the Malcom X quote than that of MLK's.

[transformers2]

Leestu to answer your question if you listen to enough screaming vocals and listen closely you can make out the lyrics perfectly fine. I am pretty much an expert at it now but I do understand where you are coming from and I know you are the only one that was thrown off by the screaming.

[becs]

I wonder if this changes Becs' opinion of the song at all.

Why would translation change my opinion of how a song sounds? I fully realized what he was saying (anyone who has seen beauty and the beast should be able to interpret those first couple words) with those two words, I was talking phonetically as to how he is pronouncing it.

[NSpan]

I wonder if this changes Becs' opinion of the song at all.

Why would translation change my opinion of how a song sounds? I fully realized what he was saying (anyone who has seen beauty and the beast should be able to interpret those first couple words) with those two words, I was talking phonetically as to how he is pronouncing it.

Why, indeed?

"my-bell" bothered me too.

I guess I didn't realize how deeply cultured you are... after-all, you've seen the Disney version of Beauty and the Beast... Perhaps it was your (phonetic) spelling of "my/ma" and "bell/belle" that threw me through a loop..

For some strange reason, I thought the idea of him crooning "ma belle" in French MIGHT be more appealing than him flatly declaring this girl to be a "bell"..

[becs]

I wonder if this changes Becs' opinion of the song at all.

Why would translation change my opinion of how a song sounds? I fully realized what he was saying (anyone who has seen beauty and the beast should be able to interpret those first couple words) with those two words, I was talking phonetically as to how he is pronouncing it.

Why, indeed?

"my-bell" bothered me too.

I guess I didn't realize how deeply cultured you are... after-all, you've seen the Disney version of Beauty and the Beast... Perhaps it was your (phonetic) spelling of "my/ma" and "bell/belle" that threw me through a loop..

For some strange reason, I thought the idea of him crooning "ma belle" in French MIGHT be more appealing than him flatly declaring this girl to be a "bell"..

No, as I said, it was the flat note used in the transition between the two words that I found to be irksome, nothing to do with the words.

[undeadmonkey]

Shrykespeare
Audioslave, “Like a Stone” (2003) (also englishozzy's #59)
sorry, also dont remember this song from before, which isnt a good thing obviously. it wasnt awful, but i'm sure i wont remember it in a day or two

NSpan
The Beatles, “Michelle” (1965)
hmmm, this isn't one of the beatles songs that i listen to a lot or look forward to when it's on an album. As i find it very inferior to a lot of other beatle songs. but hey it's still beatles.

Numbersix
The Smiths. “I Know it’s Over” (1986)
Interesting pick. I just wrote out a description for a song in the next thread, that was kind of similar to this. not so much about suicide and depression but about being lonely and depression and growing up. The only difference is that you will most likely hate the song. anyway it doesnt really matter, it's not like you have like a lot of my other songs . That being said, i didnt get that much out of the song, but it was nice.

Geezer
Alkaline Trio, “Stupid Kid”
i didn't think his voice was like silk, it wasnt even that powerful and it was like he was straining really hard to even just be in tune. That being said, the song was catchy and I can see the appeal.

becs
The Beatles, "Hey Jude”
yes! much better Beatles song than the one above, sorry nspan. but there's a reason the well known classics are well known, they are just fantastic. great stuff, favorite of the round.

leestu
Beck “Loser” (1993) (also W's #93 and Buscemi's #84)
to be honest, i dont remember this song from before. So i will just judge it from here. and I didn't like it. I thought the performance was awful as well.

Buscemi
Public Enemy, “Fight the Power”
i didnt find anything entertaining about it. or even anything interesting about it that i could listen for, total boredom

silversurfer
The Buzzcocks, “ Orgasm Addict” (1977)
yikes, i dont see how this can bee seen any different than buscemi's strokin song. just because this is supposed to be serious, it doesnt make it any better.

transformers
Between The Buried and Me, "Disease, Injury, Madness”
gave me a headache.

W
Eric Clapton, “Layla (Unplugged)”
sorry, i couldnt get into this one. i found it extremely boring.

englishozzy
The Offspring, "Can't Get My Head Around You"
Didnt think it was great, but definitely catchy enough to bob my head along with the beat.

BarcaRulz
Oomph!, "Augen Auf"
buahahaha!! it was so cheesy! I loved it! haha, anf your right the video was pretty good, it looks like they didnt spend that much on it, but it came out pretty darn good.

Ron Burgundy
Eminem feat Dr Dre, “Guilty Conscience”
yea, i'd rather take eminem of the last few albums than this. still not that bad though, catchy enough to be entertaining for a listen every once in a while

Chienfantome
Coldplay, “Trouble”
never heard this one from Coldplay. pretty good stuff. finally someone else a song of theirs on their list besides me (oh wait i think leestu had one as well). either way, i enjoyed it. good pick.

[undeadmonkey]

NO songs that overlapped mine, but there was one that i wish i would of put on my list,

numbersix
43. Johnny Cash, Hurt


Favorites I hadn't heard before.

Shrykespeare
48. James Brown, Living in America

becs
45. Men at Work, Overkill

NSpan
46. Talking Heads, Life During Wartime

Cheinfantome
41. Coldplay, Trouble

englishozzy
47. Wolfmother, Joker and the Thief

Favorites I have heard before

NSpan
50. Marvin Gaye, What's Going On
47. Cat Stevens, If You Want to Sing Out, Sing Out
45. The Beach Boys, Heroes and Villains

becs
41. The Beatles, Hey Jude

Ron Burgundy
42. Michael Jackson, Thriller

W
50. Hank Williams, Your Cheatin' Heart

BarcaRulz
45. MGMT, Kids